from Norio Hayakawa at Civilian Intelligence Central
August 17, 2012
I was interviewed recently by an Australian magazine called NEW DAWN.
I tried to answer the questions as much as possible but I had to do it with such a limited space alloted, but anyway, here is the interview:
Can you please describe your background and how you came to develop an interest in the UFO phenomenon?
I started getting really involved with UFO research from around 1961 when I was a Sophomore in High School.
However when I was in elementary school beginning in the early 1950s I had already known about "flying saucers" because I used to listen to my father who used to tell me of his sighting of a strangely maneuvering green "ball" of fire when he was night fishing one summer night in 1947 in the Bay of Yokohama, Japan.
My father was quite familiar with shooting stars and other astonomical phenomena more than most people because he had spent years and years in night fishing and was so used to looking at night skies.
But that particular summer night in 1947 was definitely unforgettable to him, he used to tell our family at our dining table as he enthusiastically described his sighting to us.
(On the other hand, my mother remained skeptical in general about UFOs until 1975 when she claimed to me that she had witnessed a flying saucer - with a dome on top - hovering over a railway station during broad daylight).*
From 1961 I started getting involved and began to subscribe to newletters from NICAP and APRO and other groups in the U.S., even though I was living in Japan.
I also began to attend meetings of UFO investigations groups in Yokohama and Tokyo areas.
In 1964 when I was attending a college in Tokyo, I became fascinated by a newspaper article about a strange encounter involving a highway patrol officer named Lonnie Zamora who claimed to have witnessed a flying saucer sitting on the desert, just outside of a sleep little town in New Mexico, U.S.A., named Socorro.
Of course, that was the famous Socorro incident of 1964.
This sighting really convinced me that, whatever it may take, I must get to the bottom of this strange phenomenon.
According to you, the authorities have exploited and benefited from the UFO phenomenon, by using it as a smokescreen for various top secret, militaristic projects. Please explain.
Many defense contractors in the U.S. periodically come up with "cover" stories that they create in order to detract attention away from the scrutiny of covert military projects by some curious segment of the population.
These creations of "cover" stories sometimes involve false UFO sighting reports that are frequently used when some contractors come up with new military weapons systems or new military aircraft and so on, for example, new generations of remotely-controlled platforms for various programs.
Creating the so-called "laughter curtain" (i.e., bringing up the subject of UFOs or Aliens) is one way to curtail serious scrutiny of certain military bases or programs. A very good example is how Area 51, a very important military research, development and testing location, has become associated with rumors of UFOs or Aliens.
This may well have been concocted by the Air Force itself, for example.
You seem to disagree with the popular notion that the authorities have all the answers concerning UFO activity on Earth; meaning that there is no UFO "cover up" as such.
In fact, you've stated that the authorities are just as baffled by the UFO phenomenon as the general population.
Moreover, you suggest that the authorities have tried (and are still trying) to promote among the public certain beliefs concerning UFOs - namely, that UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft piloted by physical entities - as part of a sinister psychological manipulation program.
I am of the opinion that the government or "authorities" are just as perplexed about the puzzling nature of the UFO phenomena as the public.
The only reason that they have not disclosed anything conclusive despite many many years of research and collection of vital sighting report files may be because they are unable to explain the phenomenon to the public because they have long found out that the phenomenon cannot be sufficiently explained simply through contemporary, empirical science.
The government has never been in the business of explaining anything that is outside of empirical scientific explanations.
The UFO phenomenon seems to go beyond just being a physical phenomenon.
Operation Paperclip - whereby scientists from Nazi Germany (such as the rocket genius Werher von Braun) were recruited by the United States Government in the aftermath of WWII - is a topic that frequently crops up in your writings and talks.
What is the significance of Operation Paperclip within the context of your research?
We cannot underestimate the importance of Operation Paperclip in the aftermath of WWII.
Operation Paperclip was a U.S. sanctioned program through which hundreds and hundreds of former Nazi German scientists and engineers (and even former SS intelligence officers) were brought to the U.S. in order for the U.S. to acquire some of the interesting military technologies that the Germans already had in the late 1930s and early 1940s, such as advanced rocket science and development of prototypes of flying wing aircraft, some of which were even equipped with ramjet engines and attained speeds of up to 500 or 600 miles per hour.
New Mexico was one of the primary locations for these scientists because New Mexico already had important laboratories such as Los Alamos and also important rocket testing ranges such as the White Sands ranges.
Even today, New Mexico's White Sand Missile Ranges is the location of the most advanced testing of directed energy weapons systems, with the use of lasers and microwaves.
What is Project Blue Beam and how does it tie into your research and the notion of a coming global crisis?
Project Blue Beam is an alleged, secret futuristic NASA program in which advanced technologies (such as the use of airborne holographic projection devices and manipulations of various frequency waves) could be utilized to create fake visual/audio simulations to convince the public (or the enemy) that they are witnessing a real event, whatever that scenario may be.
The late Canadian investigative journalist, Serge Monast, first came up with this allegation that NASA will develop this technology in the near future.
In fact, I had corresponded with him in 1993 and 1994.
HAARP, which was began to be talked about in the early 1990s, was basically another version of Project Blue Beam, utilizing some of the Tesla technologies.
According to some researchers, programs such as HAARP and the Blue Beam Project could be utilized in the future to create panic (such as by creating a fake "extraterrestrial" invasion scenario) so that the frightened and deceived public would clamor for some type of global authority and unity to fend off such "threats".
During a recent interview on Truth Connections Radio you made a comment to the effect that there would be no UFO history were it not for the state of New Mexico.
Please explain what you meant by this.
The importance of New Mexico can be seen from the fact that the atomic bomb was first tested in this state.
New Mexico is where Los Alamos National Laboratories are located, probably the world's largest conglomerate military/scientific research community.
Los Alamos, by the way, also has the world's most advanced DNA, human genome, genetics laboratory in the world.
Albuquerque, New Mexico is the headquarters of Sandia National Laboratories, probably the world's largest military research, development and testing conglomerate, located inside Kirtland Air Force Base.
New Mexico is such a huge state in size (the 5th largest in the Union) but yet is scarcely populated in proportion to its huge area.
Even today, the total population of New Mexico is just about 2 million.
By the way, there are more scientists per population in New Mexico than in any other state.
Yet the irony is that the level of public education in New Mexico ranks about 48th in the nation.
New Mexico has enough space to conduct any kind of covert military research, development and testing programs.
As I stated a while ago, the White Sands Missile Ranges today is the location of the world's most advanced directed energy weapons testing programs, involving lasers and microwaves.
If aliens really exist, then this would definitley be the primary place of interest for obvious reasons.
In fact, many people seem to believe that an extraterrestrial spacecraft had crashed already New Mexico in 1947 outside of Roswell.
There is said to be a clandestine (and possibly extraterrestrial) underground facility near the town of Dulce, New Mexico - a topic on which you've conducted an extensive amount of research.
What are some of the discoveries you've made concerning Dulce?
Although I have been involved with investigations into the claims of an alleged underground joint U.S./alien base in Dulce, New Mexico (alleged biological laboratory) for many years, I have yet to see any solid, tangible, physical, irrefutable documentary evidence whatsoever of its physical existence.
Yet, I can also say that there seem to be lots of circumstantial evidences that seem to point out that there is "something" there.
What that "something" is, I still do not know.
What is your perspective on the cattle mutilation mystery?
The cattle mutilation mystery, to my knowledge, began to be reported primarily in the mid 1970s in the Dulce, New Mexico areas and also in southern Colorado areas.
It is my conjecture that it may have had something to do with the government's monitoring of radiation levels of certain cows in the northern New Mexico region, especially in the aftermath of alleged radiation leaks that began to affect animals and even humans in the Dulce vicinity, after the U.S. exploded an atomic device deep underground, about 22 miles southwest of Dulce in 1967.
This experiment, code-named Project Gasbuggy, was a program realized by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commision, ostensibly to help ease the flow of natural gas entrapped deep beneath hard rocks in the the Dulce region.
The high rate of cancer in the Dulce area as well as widespread fertility problems among young women in the area is quite noticeable, even today.
Plus, there is a possiblity that the government may have used the Dulce area to dump toxic waste materials in that area, besides possibly conducting some form of bio-warfare research involving substances such as anthrax.
The cattle mutilations incidents may also have been a series of staged events by the government to cause local people as well as the public into believe that somehow Dulce is associated with alien visitations of some kind.
The late Gabe Valdez, former New Mexico State Patrol officer in charge of the entire Dulce region for many years, also seemed to come to that conclusion, and that UFO incidents were staged by the government by the use of holographic projections and other mind-control technologies that they were developing at that time at places such as the Sandia National Laboratories inside Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Please shed some light on your association with the late Milton William Cooper (otherwise known as William "Bill" Cooper) - the famous conspiracy theorist and author of Behold a Pale Horse - and how his work is of relevance to your own.
When William "Bill" Cooper first came to the scene in 1989 in Los Angeles, I was quite impressed with his speeches.
He had brought a new, global conspiracy-type angle to the UFO phenomenon, which sounded very fresh and exiciting to lots of in the so-called UFO community, including myself.
I even helped him launch his first public lecture at Hollywood High School in 1989.
As the years went by, Cooper began to disassociate himself with Ufology.
He went into the "militia" or "Patriot" movement and, unfortunately, met a violent death in 2001 in Arizona.
What I admired about Cooper, despite his well-known obnoxious and rather egotistical personality, was the fact that he began to admit that he may have been purposely shown disinformation by the Navy concerning UFOs.
He also began to believe that the in the future, a secret global government could even stage a "fake" extraterrestrial event to create panic in order to establish a forced, global governance of some type.
What do you make of the claims of Robert "Bob" Lazar - who says he took part in a top secret government project, based at Area 51, to reverse-engineer recovered extraterrestrial spacecraft - and others who've come forward with similar sensational stories?
The claims of Bob Lazar are simply claims and cannot be verified.
However, Bob Lazar, all these years, has never changed his story.
The very fact that Bob Lazar is still conducting science equipment business in Michigan (United Nuclear) and still seems to be doing occasional work indirectly with some defense contractors seems to indicate that he is indeed knowledgeable in the scientific applications associated with military technologies.
But there is also a theory that Bob Lazar was manipulated intentionally by the govenrment to bring about the "extraterrestrial" element to the Area 51 story, thus bringing about the "laughter" curtain when any discussion of this important military test base is mentioned by the public.
In your opinion, the UFO phenomenon is non-physical in nature, having nothing to do with flesh-and-blood extraterrestrial beings. Alternatively, you've expressed a strong appreciation of Jacques Vallee's interdimensional hypothesis, which interprets UFO events in terms of other "dimensions" or "realities" existing alongside our own.
The vast majority of the world's scientists as well as the public-at-large seem to speculate that there has to be advanced extraterrestrail civilizations elsewhere in the universe.
However, when it comes to the question of UFOs, most of them do not support the theory that we have ever been (or are being) visited by physical extraterrestrial beings in physical spacecraft.
Physically it is impossible, they say.
Even one of the world's most brilliant minds, Stephen Hawkings, while acknowledging that the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations are almost certain, says that No Aliens have ever come to earth in UFOs.
But the UFO phenomenon seems to be real.
I totally agree with Dr. Jacques Vallee who continues to support the extra-dimensional origins of UFOs.
I also tend to believe that UFOs are neither objects nor are they flying (as we understand and interpret those definitions).
I tend to believe that they are temporarily materialzing and dematerializing.
In other words, they have been (and are) temporarily intruding into our dimension for reasons unknown and receding back quickly into their dimension, likewise.
UFO reports have existed from time immemorial.
But even today we still do not comprehend the true nature of this puzzling phenomenon.
You once worked as a licensed funeral director, while some of your blog posts concern philosphical topics such as death and the afterlife. Do you believe these topics are of relevance to the UFO phenomenon and, if so, how?
I noticed you've composed on the keyboard some catchy UFO-themed music.
Am I right to assume that the UFO phenomenon has had a deep and inspirational influence on your life, not just musically but in other areas also?
This world is filled with mysteries.
There are things in this world that cannot be explained sufficiently.
Life and death are mysteries unto themselves.
So, in this sense, the UFO phenomenon is no different from the mysteries of life and death.
This phenomenon, which has existed from time immemorial (i.e., sighting reports), has not been solved yet.
This is the reason why I have been so fascinated with this topic.
The world would be dull without these mysteries.
In fact, as I stated many times in my public presentations, the topic of the UFO phenomenon is perhaps the most important topic of mankind.
Thank you so much for answering these questions for NEW DAWN magazine.
You are very welcome.
*not mentioned in the interview
By the way, I highly recommend the following article which was posted on an excellent blogsite called UFO CULTURE, maintained by Tomas Scolarici:
THE UFO PHENOMENON AS DEMONIC ACTIVITY: